Curse

Shadowdaemon · Nov 19, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

dont forget to make them pm everyone in your guild, with an essay on why you should sell the the build for 15 ecto

masterbeef · Nov 19, 2005, 06:37 AM // 06:37

No need for that, ecto can be pre paid to myself, skip the essay mumbo jumbo i want ectos!

Kariston The Swift · Nov 19, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Since the 15 Ecto fee is mainly to weed out the "bad seeds"....Would you accept the fact that I have taken HoH before and several well written recommendations? xD

Sergio Leone · Nov 19, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Hmmm that's a nice try, but I doubt they'll accept you.

Blue Steel · Nov 20, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

This thread has certainly attracted a lot of interest and more criticism than usual lately. Most of our conversations have migrated over to the Academy's website at http://www.LBSRA.net.

But again, just for fun, let me address a few of the recurring motifs:

(1) You sure charge a lot, LBS. I'd call it overcharging.
Response: Call it whatever you'd like. It's our offer to you, take it or leave it. Many have taken it, many have not. We will still do our best to make the game environment a better one for all of you. Less scamming, more sincerity, more interesting challenges, more informed people in the game. It sounds like everyone's a winner to me. What is overcharging? Asking more than something is worth in abstract terms. If you look at the return on investment for people who have been in the Academy for very long at all, it could be more persuasively argued that I am undercharging.

(2) People are learning basic tips from you, what's up with that?
Response: People who join the Academy join an environment of education. There are massive resources available, remarkable contributions that even the other students make, not to mention some of the best graduates. People are willing to pay three times as much to attend Harvard as a local college because of the connections and the experience. You get basic tips, true; many have become common knowledge (even though they originated here in the Academy). Many are completely innovative and there are some running techniques that no one to my knowledge outside of the LBS system use. But you are also getting an experience, a reputation, and a chance to be certified. Each of those has value far in excess of the tuition charged.

(3) Is this Academy about business or public service?
Response: Both. I believe that the game is better when people are honest with each other. I believe that people enjoy their accomplishments more when they have invested and overcome unique and thrilling challenges. I believe that a corporate conscience is an incredible thing, that in the process of making billions in the real world, Microsoft, Google, eBay, Berkshire Hathaway, Ford, Walmart, and so many other entities have provided real benefits to society. Sure they each have their critics and their problems, but they are making something of society and gainfully employing people, utilizing talent in the most productive means, and making goods or services available to the masses. I believe in the inherent good of capital markets; I suppose because I am an American (and I recognize that not everyone on this forum is), I believe that the creation of wealth benefits everyone and that free economies are the genesis of free people, where success is not a matter of being born a monarch but rather through one's own merit.

(4) I don't think you're that great.
Response: I'm just fine with that. I don't think I'm that great, either, just well known, comparatively, and content to do the very best that I can for people with what I do. I think my vision is noble and my intent pure, and that's enough for me. Are there greater Guild Wars players out there? I have no idea! There are (or were) millions of people playing Guild Wars. I will not argue from ignorance (like those who challenge the material available in the Academy when they haven't been in the Academy and literally have no idea). I do not know everyone who plays and what they do or what they have accomplished. One of the most common whispers I get from people, many times a day, goes like this: "Is it true you are the wealthiest person/most famous person/best player in Guild Wars?" I'm not sure how people expect me to answer that, but I typically respond, "I do not know; while I know huge numbers of extremely wealthy, well-known, and/or well respected players in the game community, I do not know them all. I know of no one more wealthy than me or more famous than me, but I don't think anyone knows how wealthy I am or how to objectively measure fame or skill. I keep plenty of details to myself, not even sharing them with my closest friends. And I am sure other people do the same. So yes, it is quite possible I am the wealthiest and most famous. Does that matter?"

(5) Drok's Run sure changed; has the Academy kept up? What does the future hold?
Respose: Yes it has changed and yes we have kept up. There is an extremely difficult spawn possible with "chaser worms" through the first tunnel of avicara and two painfully close packs of ice golems and pine souls following. Can it be beat? Yes, but only by extremely skilled and experienced runners. We have a couple of builds in the Academy that we run for dealing with the ugliest of all spawns in the area when you are running solo. I don't think anyone else (besides me and Academy crew) runs solo anymore, or if they do they are just hoping for an easier spawn and willing to retry if they don't make it and hopeful that the passengers are willing to be patient. I wish Anet made the spawns more consistent, rather than some easy and some more challenging: it would be preferable in my mind to have them different, but equally difficult so that there is a certain threshold of skill and knowledge required to make it, and make it everytime. As it is, there is an exceptional amount of skill required to beat the worst spawn, and yet scammers and runners of questionable ability can beat the easy spawns. Contrary to my vision of a scam-free Guild Wars, the wildly inconsistent spawns promote unethical practices on that common run from Beacon's to Droks. But so be it. As for what the future holds: your guess is as good as mine.

Shadowdaemon · Nov 20, 2005, 02:26 AM // 02:26

my earlier comment was really just a joke, i DO think the price of your runs is a bit extravagant, however, from what i have seen you do have a very good reputation, and if i needed a run, i believe i wouldnt get ripped off by one of your members

killer toast · Nov 20, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

id rip you off

November Raine · Nov 20, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

also note: Toast isnt in the academy any more

Bongo · Nov 20, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Lady Blue Steel sorry to say but it seems you have a very big head

...being modest is good sometimes and no offence I don't even see why your so great? You can run people? Good for you...I respect Traders more lol...or mainly people that are Rank 9 than a runner. Also everything is subjective, many people could argue that Masar or Nef or others are/were wealthier than you.

PS: I am not saying I am great! I am not great, I am good but there are better out there

!

lord_shar · Nov 20, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongo

Lady Blue Steel sorry to say but it seems you have a very big head

...being modest is good sometimes and no offence I don't even see why your so great? You can run people? Good for you...I respect Traders more lol...or mainly people that are Rank 9 than a runner. Also everything is subjective, many people could argue that Masar or Nef or others are/were wealthier than you.

PS: I am not saying I am great! I am not great, I am good but there are better out there

!

...Already answered in point#4 of LBS' last post

purecash123 · Nov 20, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by November Raine

the patch has definitely made the droks run harder, but we are working on it extensively trying new builds, new stagedies, basically anything that comes to mind.

If you have an idea and want it tested out go ahead and PM LBS, myself, or anyone else.

good, so it's not just me thinking that I suck doing a drok run.
Those wurms got really anoyying now that they are popping up at awkward times.
I still got a 1/3 chance at the run

masterbeef · Nov 20, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Toast you cant talk without my permission, i am your master now, i pwned you like a million times in rock, paper, scissors.

The Herbalizer · Nov 20, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I find this arguing rather sad and have chosen to keep quiet up until now.

Quote:

If you look at the return on investment for people who have been in the Academy for very long at all, it could be more persuasively argued that I am undercharging.

In my honest opinion you are undercharging. What I have learnt since joining has allowed me to amass a small fortune which is many times greater than the 15ecto fee.

I think the prices are fine and would not have a problem paying them. I liken the arguments about cost to winging about Ferraris or Bentleys costing too much and should instead cost what most people can afford. That is crazy considering the high standard of service you are getting. If you want to pay 3k to a drok runner and hope he gets there aswell as having to stay at your computer as you dont trust him enough to pay in advance then I am not stopping you. But if you want the most trustworthy and experience runners you come to the Runner's Academy LBSRA.NET

I have sat in Beacons Perch wanting to be run to Droknar to see how good other runners really are and for the next hour I saw runners who were quite frankly a joke. Friends have told me how they have been with pairs of runners who could not even make it. If it took an hour and noone could run me I would hate to have carried on waiting as it may have taken many hours for a runner who would make it.

I then ran my friends and it was one of the most difficult spawns I have ever had. The Golems were all spread out making it hard to not aggro them and the huge Summit mob in Drednoughts was waiting at the exit of the tunnel leading up to the Giants. I made the run with ease and no deaths and they were speachless.

I ran another friend who was 100% against me joining the academy and used all the classic arguments like, "you can learn it yourself and the prices are crazy". I made the run and he said how he was really impressed with my running skills and it was a really good idea me joining the academy.

Another example of how useful the academy has been to me is when I took a group to Droknar. They were all amazed that I made it past Lornars as they had all had problems with the other "non LBSRA" runners. One person said he had switched from the European server to the American one to find a good runner.

The community is excellent and is very active, friendly and helpful. They are not just the greater runners in all of Tyria they are also amazing in other areas. At the moment we are working on becoming an excellent PVP guild aswell as running and hopefully soon you will see us dominating Tombs and have a place high up on the guild ladder.

fenix · Nov 20, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Wow...I respected LBSRA when I first saw the thread, and was going to save up for it, but all you guys are arrogant. You act like you're better than everyone else despite the fact that you've been conned, and that someone has ripped you out of lots of cash, and then told you skills that are general knowledge. I think that charging people money to teach them how to run is ridiculous, and that running itself shouldn't be encouraged like this. Sure, I've done it before, been run places, I also run people for REALLY cheap compared to LBSRA's prices, but also I think that it's ruining the fun of playing through the game.

Quote:

If you look at the return on investment for people who have been in the Academy for very long at all, it could be more persuasively argued that I am undercharging

Undercharging... you make people pay 250k, and you say that it's undercharging. I think you need a reality check, and need to look at the amount of good runners that are around, that have learned the skills from friends or trial and error. I'm quite sure there are many who would do as well if not better than LBSRA members, and they didnt spend upwards of 500k to learn it.

fenix · Nov 20, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

lol good one Herbalizer. Way to strengthen your case. Having everyone in your guild bumping this thread early on had a big part in this. And what you just said makes you sound even MORE arrogant.

killer toast · Nov 20, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

were is the love people cant we all just get along?
p.s mr happycakes i kicked your ass in rps when we were in grotto

Zoolooman · Nov 20, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Edit: I'm removing this post because I realize it will be seen as flaming, and I don't care to argue right now.

LiQuId StEeL · Nov 20, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Is the powerleveling option still available with the AoE changes? If so, could someone interested pm me a price?

thanks (don't beat me into a pulp if this is the wrong spot)

dreamex2 · Nov 21, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

@Liquid.

It's probably still available although it would be at a slower speed and may or may not be pricier.

@talon.

I'll be 300% honest with you, I've been in the academy for the weekend and I was able to pass the running test on the second day due largely to my previous running experience. However, that is not to say I didn't learn one or two things that I previously had no idea about, also, it was a window for a lot of 'customers' that got passed on when no one else had the chance to run them. That in itself shows that there's more requests than available LBS runners at most periods of time. Sadly, most of the runs were short (LA->ToA, Ascalon->Beacons etc) and were only for 1 person instead of a party so I did them for free anyways>.>

Another point I'd like to make is the level of consistency and professionalism shown by many of the members of the Academy, they're working very hard to maintain a good image and a great service (mostly 'cause I think they're all jerks on the inside :P). I've said it many times before, you can find a running build anywhere online (hell it's not even hard to come up with one), but that doesn't make you a great runner. For some people, you can learn through trial/error and practice. For others, they need outside teachings to get something. The service isn't necessary for everyone, nor will it benefit everyone, but it's still there for those who need it.

Next to address the issue of value... How can you appraise something so abstract and subjective for everyone without taking into consideration individual cases? Sure, for someone who's already been able to run, 15 ecto seems rather superfluous as an entrance fee for a few connections and tips right? But what about for the person who's never done it before, found a build, has no idea about the maps, has no idea when to use the right skills, and desperately wants some help?

The truth is this, many of the members have earned their tuition back at least 3 times over. That's probably worth it for those members. Someone like me (I prefer to run for free unless it's a party run to somewhere inconvenient), will probably end up not making as much, but it doesn't mean that the knowledge we would gain is not worth anything...

To address the issue of arrogance, well, I can't really... I haven't known them long enough yet. In my limited experience with the Academy, I can tell you that the majority of the members are not running around with fanfare proclaiming how great they are. A lot of the students are inexperienced and seeking guidance and the officers are not rubbing it in that they're better... In regards to the general public and interaction between members and the general public... I don't think they mean to be arrogant... some of them just don't seem to be very articulate

and may come off that way.

@Everyone else.

There is really no reason to criticize something that you have no intentions of using ever. This is a premium service geared towards those who want and/or need it. Just like an exotic car, a hot vacation, an expensive hooker, whatever you want to compare it to.

Thank you for your time.

fenix · Nov 21, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Most of what you said I agree to, but why would you spend the extra cash when other people can run you for so much less? The prices for LA to Ascension are ridiculous, as are most of the other ones. The only run I can't do consistently is Droknar's and even one of the LBSRA members said the guild are having problems, and have to go with 2 people. I run from Ascalon to Sanctum Cay for 5k. That's it. Always make it, no matter what. Look at your prices, and honestly answer this, from your point of view if you weren't in LBSRA.

Which one would you take?